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	<title>Comments on: Will They Ever Learn?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/</link>
	<description>Your Life Beyond The Capitol</description>
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		<title>By: Wayan</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-388</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-388</guid>
		<description>Ted Kaczynski looked like a terrorist</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted Kaczynski looked like a terrorist</p>
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		<title>By: carlweaver</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-364</link>
		<dc:creator>carlweaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 17:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-364</guid>
		<description>Did Timothy McVeigh look like a terrorist? What about Eric Rudolph? They both were white guys who were terrorists. Thank goodness that terrorism is here to break down the tensions between the races.

The moral of the story is that SLR = terrorist. Sneaky point-and-shoot = tourist.

None of this makes sense. Ben - you have a cool head. I would have been hog-tied, pistol-whipped and shipped to Gitmo because I turn into a dick in this type of situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Timothy McVeigh look like a terrorist? What about Eric Rudolph? They both were white guys who were terrorists. Thank goodness that terrorism is here to break down the tensions between the races.</p>
<p>The moral of the story is that SLR = terrorist. Sneaky point-and-shoot = tourist.</p>
<p>None of this makes sense. Ben &#8211; you have a cool head. I would have been hog-tied, pistol-whipped and shipped to Gitmo because I turn into a dick in this type of situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:27:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-361</guid>
		<description>Well, sure, because that dollar bill move would have gotten you dickpunched, as is the DC way with dispute resolution. :-)

If you or others would have a passion around this issue, let me suggest the DC photo rights group on flickr: http://flickr.com/groups/dcphotorights/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, sure, because that dollar bill move would have gotten you dickpunched, as is the DC way with dispute resolution. :-)</p>
<p>If you or others would have a passion around this issue, let me suggest the DC photo rights group on flickr: <a href="http://flickr.com/groups/dcphotorights/" rel="nofollow">http://flickr.com/groups/dcphotorights/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Will H.</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-360</link>
		<dc:creator>Will H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-360</guid>
		<description>&quot;Kumar? What kind of name is that, Kumar?&quot; - Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Kumar? What kind of name is that, Kumar?&#8221; &#8211; Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.</p>
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		<title>By: JD</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-359</link>
		<dc:creator>JD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 15:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-359</guid>
		<description>You don&#039;t have to look like a terrorist to get stopped when photographing government buildings--it happens to me all the time, a 40-something red-headed pale white chick, who happens to be wielding an SLR. I&#039;ve been chased down by DC cops who got called by the Navy Yard after I was seen taking pictures of the entrance at Hull and M, SE, even *after* one of the guards chased me down as well.

I especially enjoyed when it happened during the construction of the ballpark. What was happening there was that the low-paid security staff were probably being told to keep lookie-loos away by any means necessary, and had been given &quot;pictures aren&#039;t allowed&quot; as one of the options. Sure, if you stepped onto the ballpark footprint, they could get rid of you however they wanted, but I loved being told I wasn&#039;t allowed to take pictures when I was standing across the street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t have to look like a terrorist to get stopped when photographing government buildings&#8211;it happens to me all the time, a 40-something red-headed pale white chick, who happens to be wielding an SLR. I&#8217;ve been chased down by DC cops who got called by the Navy Yard after I was seen taking pictures of the entrance at Hull and M, SE, even *after* one of the guards chased me down as well.</p>
<p>I especially enjoyed when it happened during the construction of the ballpark. What was happening there was that the low-paid security staff were probably being told to keep lookie-loos away by any means necessary, and had been given &#8220;pictures aren&#8217;t allowed&#8221; as one of the options. Sure, if you stepped onto the ballpark footprint, they could get rid of you however they wanted, but I loved being told I wasn&#8217;t allowed to take pictures when I was standing across the street.</p>
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		<title>By: urbanlumberjack</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>urbanlumberjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-356</guid>
		<description>The &quot;look like a terrorist&quot; comment is a bit unsettling on a few levels. First is the idea that one can &quot;look&quot; like a terrorist. But second, and more disturbing to me at least, is the implication in that statement that if you did indeed &quot;look&quot; like  a terrorist, the situation would be somewhat more justified.

I have two friends who were detained by transit police in Baltimore for 4 hours when &quot;caught&quot; taking pictures in the harbor at night. They are both shades of brown and one has a very Muslim name. Does they&#039;re appearance lend credence to the otherwise ridiculous actions of the police?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;look like a terrorist&#8221; comment is a bit unsettling on a few levels. First is the idea that one can &#8220;look&#8221; like a terrorist. But second, and more disturbing to me at least, is the implication in that statement that if you did indeed &#8220;look&#8221; like  a terrorist, the situation would be somewhat more justified.</p>
<p>I have two friends who were detained by transit police in Baltimore for 4 hours when &#8220;caught&#8221; taking pictures in the harbor at night. They are both shades of brown and one has a very Muslim name. Does they&#8217;re appearance lend credence to the otherwise ridiculous actions of the police?</p>
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		<title>By: Will H.</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>Will H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-351</guid>
		<description>How much do SLR cameras usually run these days?  I am thinking about getting a decent camera besides one of those pocket family photo takers.  Also, I dabble heavily in Photoshop on a professional basis for what I do at my nonprofit in enhancing our online presence and personally on my blog. 

For someone looking for a hobby, is the SLR the way to go?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much do SLR cameras usually run these days?  I am thinking about getting a decent camera besides one of those pocket family photo takers.  Also, I dabble heavily in Photoshop on a professional basis for what I do at my nonprofit in enhancing our online presence and personally on my blog. </p>
<p>For someone looking for a hobby, is the SLR the way to go?</p>
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		<title>By: 14thandYou</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-350</link>
		<dc:creator>14thandYou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-350</guid>
		<description>&quot;What does a terrorist look like?&quot;

Ansel Adams, apparently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What does a terrorist look like?&#8221;</p>
<p>Ansel Adams, apparently.</p>
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		<title>By: Marcus Aurelius</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-349</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcus Aurelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-349</guid>
		<description>What does a terrorist look like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does a terrorist look like?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben H. Rome</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-346</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben H. Rome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-346</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll grant you that, sure. But how do you think that guard made *his* assumption? There was another person half a block down from me photographing the Education building as well as Transportation - only he was an older white man with a point-and-shoot. Me? I&#039;m a darker skinned Native with an SLR.

So apparently, the guard went based on looks. Because that older white gentleman wasn&#039;t yelled at from across the street to come over to him &quot;immediately.&quot; Only me. 

I offered to let them search my bag, look at my camera photos, etc. All politely refused. They had every opportunity to check me out; instead, I&#039;m told a lame excuse as to why I can&#039;t photograph and then it&#039;s implied I could be a terrorist threat.

My offhand remark you refer to is just my response to such a stupid assumption on the guard&#039;s part.  

You are right, Jake - there are some implications that do lurk beneath all this; questions that we all have to ask ourselves. But that&#039;s not why I blogged this. It&#039;s simply to report what happened to me and my snotty reply to the whole situation after the fact. Nothing more. Because I know if I&#039;d said that phrase to them in the tone I reserve for sarcasm, I might still be in the bowels of the DoT building...

Look at it this way: At least I didn&#039;t write a nasty note on a dollar bill and tip the guys with it... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll grant you that, sure. But how do you think that guard made *his* assumption? There was another person half a block down from me photographing the Education building as well as Transportation &#8211; only he was an older white man with a point-and-shoot. Me? I&#8217;m a darker skinned Native with an SLR.</p>
<p>So apparently, the guard went based on looks. Because that older white gentleman wasn&#8217;t yelled at from across the street to come over to him &#8220;immediately.&#8221; Only me. </p>
<p>I offered to let them search my bag, look at my camera photos, etc. All politely refused. They had every opportunity to check me out; instead, I&#8217;m told a lame excuse as to why I can&#8217;t photograph and then it&#8217;s implied I could be a terrorist threat.</p>
<p>My offhand remark you refer to is just my response to such a stupid assumption on the guard&#8217;s part.  </p>
<p>You are right, Jake &#8211; there are some implications that do lurk beneath all this; questions that we all have to ask ourselves. But that&#8217;s not why I blogged this. It&#8217;s simply to report what happened to me and my snotty reply to the whole situation after the fact. Nothing more. Because I know if I&#8217;d said that phrase to them in the tone I reserve for sarcasm, I might still be in the bowels of the DoT building&#8230;</p>
<p>Look at it this way: At least I didn&#8217;t write a nasty note on a dollar bill and tip the guys with it&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-345</guid>
		<description>&quot;I hardly look like a terrorist.&quot;  What the hell does how you look, which naturally relates to ethnicity or race, have to do with whether or not you&#039;re actually a terrorist or a threat?! 

Limiting violations of liberties only to people who look a certain way is hardly an improvement. I realize you tossed that remark in as an aside, but maybe you should give a bit more thought to the implications that lurk behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I hardly look like a terrorist.&#8221;  What the hell does how you look, which naturally relates to ethnicity or race, have to do with whether or not you&#8217;re actually a terrorist or a threat?! </p>
<p>Limiting violations of liberties only to people who look a certain way is hardly an improvement. I realize you tossed that remark in as an aside, but maybe you should give a bit more thought to the implications that lurk behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: soulful</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-341</link>
		<dc:creator>soulful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-341</guid>
		<description>what does a terrorist look like?  why couldn&#039;t a white person look like a terrorist?

seems like the average white person would be a perfect terrorist - the police wouldn&#039;t expect it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what does a terrorist look like?  why couldn&#8217;t a white person look like a terrorist?</p>
<p>seems like the average white person would be a perfect terrorist &#8211; the police wouldn&#8217;t expect it.</p>
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		<title>By: Will H.</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>Will H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-333</guid>
		<description>Sorry, look for episode 141 at photoshopusertv.com.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, look for episode 141 at photoshopusertv.com.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Will H.</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Will H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-332</guid>
		<description>You can get a good legal point of view on this week&#039;s http://www.photoshopusertv.com/.  In this episode they discuss such a topic as taking pictures from a public location and of government buildings.  In fact, there are laws governing taking pictures from a public location of government buildings.  I highly recommend watching this week&#039;s episode.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can get a good legal point of view on this week&#8217;s <a href="http://www.photoshopusertv.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.photoshopusertv.com/</a>.  In this episode they discuss such a topic as taking pictures from a public location and of government buildings.  In fact, there are laws governing taking pictures from a public location of government buildings.  I highly recommend watching this week&#8217;s episode.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Boilerman</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Boilerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 19:17:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-330</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see how long it takes them to put you on the no-fly list Ben.  Want to set up a betting pool?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see how long it takes them to put you on the no-fly list Ben.  Want to set up a betting pool?</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-328</guid>
		<description>Good deal, Ben.  Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton might be a good CC on any letter of concern you may send, given her interest in DC having jurisdiction over its own city&#039;s public property, and given her committee positions regarding both Transportation and Homeland Security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good deal, Ben.  Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton might be a good CC on any letter of concern you may send, given her interest in DC having jurisdiction over its own city&#8217;s public property, and given her committee positions regarding both Transportation and Homeland Security.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben H. Rome</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-326</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben H. Rome</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-326</guid>
		<description>@Joel: I did indeed get his info, as well as the supervisor&#039;s. Just in case. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joel: I did indeed get his info, as well as the supervisor&#8217;s. Just in case. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Joel Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 16:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-325</guid>
		<description>Did you get *his* information as well?  I think it&#039;s always important to follow up with a letter to someone at the agency/building.  At the very least, I wouldn&#039;t give my personal information to someone suspecting me of being a &quot;terrorist&quot; simply because I have a camera, given how security agencies often mishandle information, without making the situation equitable by getting their information also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you get *his* information as well?  I think it&#8217;s always important to follow up with a letter to someone at the agency/building.  At the very least, I wouldn&#8217;t give my personal information to someone suspecting me of being a &#8220;terrorist&#8221; simply because I have a camera, given how security agencies often mishandle information, without making the situation equitable by getting their information also.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-322</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think it has anything to do with situations or appearances anymore, &quot;because of terrorism&quot; has become the default refrain for why law enforcement does anything anymore.

On my more empathetic days I feel somewhat understanding; becoming the victim of random violence is scary in large part because there&#039;s little we can do about it. What could anyone in the World Trade Center have done to avoid their fate short of living in the woods in a shack? No reason to believe law enforcement is any different - these folks want to feel they&#039;re doing something, and obsessing over photo-takers gives them an activity.

Unfortunately it&#039;s an activity akin to walking through Manhattan beating on a trash can lid in order to keep the bears away. It does nothing but annoy everyone else and allows them to say that it must be working because they don&#039;t see any bears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it has anything to do with situations or appearances anymore, &#8220;because of terrorism&#8221; has become the default refrain for why law enforcement does anything anymore.</p>
<p>On my more empathetic days I feel somewhat understanding; becoming the victim of random violence is scary in large part because there&#8217;s little we can do about it. What could anyone in the World Trade Center have done to avoid their fate short of living in the woods in a shack? No reason to believe law enforcement is any different &#8211; these folks want to feel they&#8217;re doing something, and obsessing over photo-takers gives them an activity.</p>
<p>Unfortunately it&#8217;s an activity akin to walking through Manhattan beating on a trash can lid in order to keep the bears away. It does nothing but annoy everyone else and allows them to say that it must be working because they don&#8217;t see any bears.</p>
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		<title>By: 14thandYou</title>
		<link>http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>14thandYou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/17/will-they-never-learn/#comment-319</guid>
		<description>Ahhh...living in the Securitocracy.

Although this is a particularly egregious example of securi-noia run amok.  No photography of federal buildings?  I don&#039;t mind guys just &quot;doing their job&quot;, but they&#039;ve got to receive better training than this.  If these guys honestly thought that taking pictures of a federal building is illegal, then something has gone horribly wrong with the way the federal government trains and educates its employees.   Taking pictures is the only thing half the people who visit the city end up doing anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh&#8230;living in the Securitocracy.</p>
<p>Although this is a particularly egregious example of securi-noia run amok.  No photography of federal buildings?  I don&#8217;t mind guys just &#8220;doing their job&#8221;, but they&#8217;ve got to receive better training than this.  If these guys honestly thought that taking pictures of a federal building is illegal, then something has gone horribly wrong with the way the federal government trains and educates its employees.   Taking pictures is the only thing half the people who visit the city end up doing anyway.</p>
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